Comments on: Syncopation in “Stairway to Heaven” http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/ popular music theory, analysis, and criticism Sun, 07 Sep 2008 10:22:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: trevordeclercq http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/#comment-958 trevordeclercq Fri, 01 Feb 2008 13:53:05 +0000 http://www.midside.com/blog/?p=4#comment-958 Edward, The cymbals do sound slightly phase-y during that break. I'm sure there are lots of tape edits throughout the song (apparently it was a nightmare mixing this song). I'm guessing, however, that the meter wasn't affected, though. It would be too coincidental to lose/gain what amounts to exactly one eighth note, don't you think? Edward,

The cymbals do sound slightly phase-y during that break. I’m sure there are lots of tape edits throughout the song (apparently it was a nightmare mixing this song). I’m guessing, however, that the meter wasn’t affected, though. It would be too coincidental to lose/gain what amounts to exactly one eighth note, don’t you think?

]]> By: edward a. sotelo http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/#comment-953 edward a. sotelo Thu, 31 Jan 2008 22:44:14 +0000 http://www.midside.com/blog/?p=4#comment-953 i gotta tell ya, trevor, lovely blog you have here. i was trying to read up on how one cooks up gilberto/jobim-styled chord progressions, and i end up reading about stairway. i could swear that there's a tape edit prior to a short rest in the guitar part. i wonder if that throws "off" the meter at all? i've always found zep awesomely fascinating with their combination of lock-step power and nimble looseness (which the stones parlayed in a completely different manner), as well as that combination of bombast (this entire song) and subtlety (what you just wrote about!). EAS i gotta tell ya, trevor, lovely blog you have here. i was trying to read up on how one cooks up gilberto/jobim-styled chord progressions, and i end up reading about stairway.

i could swear that there’s a tape edit prior to a short rest in the guitar part. i wonder if that throws “off” the meter at all?

i’ve always found zep awesomely fascinating with their combination of lock-step power and nimble looseness (which the stones parlayed in a completely different manner), as well as that combination of bombast (this entire song) and subtlety (what you just wrote about!).

EAS

]]> By: trevordeclercq http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/#comment-15 trevordeclercq Mon, 18 Dec 2006 23:19:00 +0000 http://www.midside.com/blog/?p=4#comment-15 revising my post to 9/8...thanks chip....hadn't actually counted it out myself. revising my post to 9/8…thanks chip….hadn’t actually counted it out myself.

]]> By: chipper http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/#comment-14 chipper Mon, 18 Dec 2006 21:11:00 +0000 http://www.midside.com/blog/?p=4#comment-14 duh, I got distracted by that awesome bonzo link to see christian had written more. I was agreeing with you that I had always heard it "incorrectly" previously as well. And while I think your discovery is really interesting, and does shed new light on an old saw, I must admit, though, that without the click track to use as a guide, I still hear everything on the beat. I think the Zappa cover does a really good job of making the bridge part more understandable as syncopation - I just think the Zep are too sloppy for me to really follow it in the original. Maybe that'll change with repeated listening... Incidentally, If I try to hear as on-the-beat, I don't hear it as a bar of 7/8 - more like a bar of 9/8 (3+2+2+2) and then a bar of 4/4 into the solo. duh, I got distracted by that awesome bonzo link to see christian had written more.

I was agreeing with you that I had always heard it “incorrectly” previously as well. And while I think your discovery is really interesting, and does shed new light on an old saw, I must admit, though, that without the click track to use as a guide, I still hear everything on the beat. I think the Zappa cover does a really good job of making the bridge part more understandable as syncopation - I just think the Zep are too sloppy for me to really follow it in the original. Maybe that’ll change with repeated listening…

Incidentally, If I try to hear as on-the-beat, I don’t hear it as a bar of 7/8 - more like a bar of 9/8 (3+2+2+2) and then a bar of 4/4 into the solo.

]]> By: Christian http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/#comment-13 Christian Thu, 14 Dec 2006 00:55:12 +0000 http://www.midside.com/blog/?p=4#comment-13 I think I might play correctly just from having heard so many times. I think I might play correctly just from having heard so many times.

]]> By: trevordeclercq http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/#comment-12 trevordeclercq Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:15:15 +0000 http://www.midside.com/blog/?p=4#comment-12 I think part of my point though, chipper, is that you CAN'T play it right even if you were to insert a bar of 7/8 at the end because you'd be playing upbeats as if they were downbeats. I think an upbeat and a downbeat have a fundamentally different character. The initial hearing makes the bridge seem really flat-footed, whereas the revised hearing (to me) gives it a totally changed feel. See Christian's post for the WFMU link to covers.... I think part of my point though, chipper, is that you CAN’T play it right even if you were to insert a bar of 7/8 at the end because you’d be playing upbeats as if they were downbeats. I think an upbeat and a downbeat have a fundamentally different character. The initial hearing makes the bridge seem really flat-footed, whereas the revised hearing (to me) gives it a totally changed feel.

See Christian’s post for the WFMU link to covers….

]]> By: chipper http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/#comment-11 chipper Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:00:00 +0000 http://www.midside.com/blog/?p=4#comment-11 I've always heard it wrong too - like the last note before the bridge has a fermata over it. I don't know that much about Zep as a recording ensemble, but maybe that's what they intended (the fermata-ey feel), and that little 3-beat phrase was just their way of catching back up with the click track? It does seem like they're all kinda lost for a beat or two... And I bet every music-nerd band with a competent drummer who covers stairway will play it right, because every good drummer will insist that 3-beat phrase is too awesome to leave out. What's the URL for the WFMU cover list? sounds interesting... I’ve always heard it wrong too - like the last note before the bridge has a fermata over it. I don’t know that much about Zep as a recording ensemble, but maybe that’s what they intended (the fermata-ey feel), and that little 3-beat phrase was just their way of catching back up with the click track? It does seem like they’re all kinda lost for a beat or two…

And I bet every music-nerd band with a competent drummer who covers stairway will play it right, because every good drummer will insist that 3-beat phrase is too awesome to leave out.

What’s the URL for the WFMU cover list? sounds interesting…

]]> By: trevordeclercq http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/#comment-10 trevordeclercq Wed, 13 Dec 2006 18:21:43 +0000 http://www.midside.com/blog/?p=4#comment-10 Just randomly, I picked the Foo Fighters and Dolly Parton versions out of the WFMU cover list, and indeed, they play the bridge incorrectly as to my revised hearing. I also listened to the Frank Zappa version, and perhaps unsurprisingly, he gets the bridge right. Just randomly, I picked the Foo Fighters and Dolly Parton versions out of the WFMU cover list, and indeed, they play the bridge incorrectly as to my revised hearing. I also listened to the Frank Zappa version, and perhaps unsurprisingly, he gets the bridge right.

]]> By: Christian http://www.midside.com/2006/12/12/stairway_syncopation/#comment-7 Christian Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:36:45 +0000 http://www.midside.com/blog/?p=4#comment-7 O.K., so this quote doesn't quite fit, but I can't resist..."Where is that confounded bridge?!" It's hard enough to tap your foot to the "Stairway" bridge, let alone dance to it with your 8th grade girlfriend. Damn, don't Page and Plant know that I have other things to worry about, like not getting caught staring at her boobs or stepping on her feet? This bridge just makes eight minutes of awkwardness...well...awkwarder. Another great post, Trevor. Thanks for the song snippets too. My God, Bonzo was a madman. Here's a <a href="http://christianpatterson.com/bonzo7.mp3" rel="nofollow">fun Bonzo</a> "All of My Love" drum track, squeaky drum pedal and all. He liked to mumble and growl while he played. And lastly...for the "Stairway" completist...<a href="http://blog.wfmu.org/freeform/2006/05/stairways_to_he.html" rel="nofollow">WFMU's 101 versions of "the song that does NOT remain the same."</a> O.K., so this quote doesn’t quite fit, but I can’t resist…”Where is that confounded bridge?!”

It’s hard enough to tap your foot to the “Stairway” bridge, let alone dance to it with your 8th grade girlfriend. Damn, don’t Page and Plant know that I have other things to worry about, like not getting caught staring at her boobs or stepping on her feet? This bridge just makes eight minutes of awkwardness…well…awkwarder.

Another great post, Trevor. Thanks for the song snippets too. My God, Bonzo was a madman.

Here’s a fun Bonzo “All of My Love” drum track, squeaky drum pedal and all. He liked to mumble and growl while he played.

And lastly…for the “Stairway” completist…WFMU’s 101 versions of “the song that does NOT remain the same.”

]]>